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Why program with VC++ instead of VB?
Date: 8 July 96, 23:23 EDT From: Scot Wingo Email: scot_wingo@msn.comFor a whole lot of apps out there, VB is much quicker. If you're just using OLE controls, then VC++ is overkill.
Date: 9 July 96, 17:32 EDT From: Michael Zuniga Email: mzuniga@informix.comI'll agree that for many applications, VB is the most effective tool around. It is especially usefull if you are doing standard data entry applications using Active-X controls (or, heaven forbid, VBX controls). But there are still classes of applications where VC++ (or just C++ or compiled languages) are far superior. For example, you wouldn't write a database in VB (I don't mean an application that uses a database, I mean THE database itself).
Date: 10 July 96, 17:41 EDT From: Tim Craig Email: CraigTT@PE-Nelson.comThe biggest reason for using C++ over VB is code reuse through inheritance. Also, for large projects classes in C++ are a great way to organize the project. I see no particular speed advantage to VB once you've come up the learning curve for C++. The examples of VB doing amazing projects in a few lines of code only occur because someone has written an OCX in C or C++ that "really" does all the work.
Date: 11 July 96, 14:25 EDT From: Chris Hagberg Email: chagberg@datx.comJust a question to add. Do people feel that it is quicker and better to prototype in VB over C++? I know C++ better than VB and am trying to figure out which to prototype in.
Date: 11 July 96, 15:13 EDT From: Dave Kelly Email: dkelly@inav.netI have done some work on large projects that were prototyped in Visual Basic. The problem was that after a certain number of controls and things were added, Visual Basic couldn't run the app any more because it just ran out of room. Of course, there may have been something our prototype guy was doing wrong, but VC++ seems to allow you to use your resources much more effectively than VB does.
Date: 11 July 96, 18:53 EDT From: Tim Craig Email: CraigTT@PE-Nelson.comIf your project is going to be developed with VC++, I feel you should use VC++ rather than VB for your prototype. The advantage is that you don't have to throw the prototype away, just flesh it out with real functionality.
Date: 15 July 96, 7:41 EDT From: Alistair Israel Email: aisrael@hotmail.comOk, so maybe this is out of context and all, but has anyone here considered Delphi over VB. Delphi has most if not all of the advantages of VC++ over VB, being a true object-oriented (sans multiple inheritance) and a compiled language. It even has a few advantages over VC++, being a true 'visual' programming environment (forms-based) and having distributable 'components' (with or without source code) and a syntax close to BASIC.
Date: 15 July 96, 9:39 EDT From: Andy Barnhart Email: andy@ciinc.comIt's interesting that someone mentioned inheritence earlier as a reason to use C++ over VB. One of the reasons that C++ is occasionally a pain to use is because of virtual functions. For example, lets say you use an MFC CWind derived class and you add a method for mouse down. Do you call the base class? Before or after your processing? Why? I am not looking for the answers to these questions; just pointing out that virtualization makes the "black boxes" a bit less opaque. In VB, when you get a clcik event, you deal with it and don't worry about passing it along (or not). I primarily program in VC++, BTW. I kiddingly told my client the other day that I sometimes wished it was a VB project, so that when he asked one of those "Would it be possible..." questions, sometimes I could just say "No.".
Date: 17 July 96, 14:52 EDT From: Tim Craig Email: CraigTT@PE-Nelson.comAndy's right that the day of true "black box" components is not here. To fruitfully use inheritance, you have to understand the functioning of the base class and to do this you really need source code (or megadocumentation on the class). If you don't have the source code and your derived class isn't working as expected, you have a problem. Of course, how many times have you debugged up to a Windows or other library API call only to find the actual crash is within leaving you wondering "what did I do wrong or is it a library bug"? Admittedly, VB provides a simple way to get form based user interfaces up quickly and if the user interface is most of the app, you're home free. Most of my apps have a considerable body of code behind the user interface and I want to make the best possible reuse of that code that I can, hence C++ and inheritance. I don't want to be moving blocks of code around and editing them all the time.
Date: 28 July 96, 19:25 EDT From: Darren Poulton Email: darrenp@taskey.comPrototyping. You really shpuld be looking to throw your prototype out before developing the real system. Prototypes are usually thrown together and should be treated as such. I have seen to many maintenance nightmares due to prototypes becoming production systems.
Date: 28 July 96, 19:28 EDT From: Darren Poulton Email: darrenp@taskey.comVirtualization can be a problem as you need to know more about what you are inheriting from. However, modern development strategies would say that you should know a great deal about what you plug into your application. That is white box testing instead of black box. The advantage of C++ is that if it does not do what you want you can make it do it in general. Save same cannot be said for OCX's which continue to be a thorn in my side
Date: 28 July 96, 19:32 EDT From: Darren Poulton Email: darrenp@taskey.comDepend's on the complexity of the system and how much reuse you want to achieve. You don't see microsoft using VB to develop its major applications do you! However, Microsoft are not saying that OLE is the only real way to great reusability from code and to this end you could pick whatever language support this. But, remember it is hard to go past the robustness that C++ allows.
Date: 6 August 96, 13:43 EDT From: Petter Hesselberg Email: petter.hesselberg@ac.comI'd like to add three comments; on prototyping, on language, and on structure. PROTOTYPING can be done just as quickly in VC++ as in VB, and there's a much better chance that the the result will be reused. The hitch is that VC requires a MUCH higher knowledge of programming and of Windows. Disregarding the "visual" prefix for a moment, the VB LANGUAGE is extremely limited compared to C++. Granted that C++ offers more opportunities to shoot yourself in the foot, it also allows you to actually accomplish something worthwhile. Finally, the VB environment does not, to put it mildly, help impose any STRUCTURE on a program. This problem is compounded by the fact that novices can so easily appear to accomplish something; in their enthusiasm, they quickly end up with an un-maintainable mess of global interdependencies. C++ requires you to learn something before you start. While this is surely upsetting to some, it remains a fact that you (typically) can't accomplish much beyond the mundane without a thorough knowledge of your tools and of the Windows API. Those who'd like to think otherwise are, for the most part, indulging in wishful thinking.
Date: 2 September 96, 13:09 EDT From: Herman R. Willett Email: hrwillet@dynasoft_.win.netVB is okay when building forms, but even if you use VB to build a form, you still need something to do the work of populating the form. This bring us back to C++/VC++ or some other work horse language. Build the forms in VB, but do the work elsewhere. Let VB be the paint and polish on the vehicle, but C++ be the engine under the hood.
Date: 24 September 96, 20:22 EDT From: Michael Feathers Email: feathers@icanect.netWhen VB3 first came out, I thought that it would be great "glue" for a bunch of OLE automation servers (written in C++), and that it could replace MFC as an application's skeleton. I've since realized that there are so many advantages to MFC's document/view architecture that it would be impractical to use VB for anything which even loosely follows a document model.
Date: 26 November 96, 15:51 EDT From: Scott Kelley Email: skelley9@mail.idt.netI began my programming carrer coming up through the C/C++ ranks. I think that the concept of people needing to know their tools and the API inside and out is completly correct. Over the last year, I started working with VB and if it weren't for my basis in C/C++ windows programming, I would have created an un-maintainable mess. VB is just not suited to large, multi developer projects. I found myself doing things to "simulate" C++ behavior just so I could organize everything. VB is great for small apps, utilities, and some internal stuff but if you want a system to sell that is going to be feature rich and still perform well, C++ is your best bet.
Date: 27 November 96, 24:33 EDT From: Howard C clarke Email: hclarke@idirect.comTo be more effective as a developer, you mighty have to use both VC++ & VB. Visual basic can be used for the GUI and Visual C++ for DLL.
Date: 3 December 96, 13:09 EDT From: Sean Lynes Email: slynes@cyberramp.netI recently met with two representatives from the Microsoft consulting group out of Dallas and some amazing changes are coming to VB. One of the consultants predicted the end of C++ because VB will be better, faster, and more powerful than using MFC. I am still in shock! VB5 will be compiled with a goal of being faster than a C++ app using MFC. Classes with single inheritance and friends. And coming soon, templates! If VB takes over we may all have the title of VB Programmer! How will that affect your future? "Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated..." Arrrggghh!!
Date: 6 December 96, 16:23 EDT From: Herman R. Willett Email: hrwillet@dynasoft_.win.netVB will have to do a lot to replace C/C++, let alone MFC. I wasted six weeks recently trying to build an app in VB 4.x, then threw in the towel and went back to VC++ and MFC. Turned out the app in about 4 days, starting from scratch. The important thing is I met my deadline and my customer was happy.
Date: 23 December 96, 12:46 EDT From: Stuart Mitchell Email: mitch@cynergy.com.auTry getting VB3 or 4 to print a line of curved text like word art in the color and font of your choice with a transparent background for Win16 and no DLL in sight. I used to coax VB, then I gave up and wrote DLLs, and now I just go straight to point B and use VC++.
Date: 18 April 97, 15:41 EDT From: TVR Email: tvr@xs4all.nlI doesn.t matter what kind of language you are using if you are a really basic programmer you use VB (with it's limitations) if you want to do more i think you use VC
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